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What was striking about our interview with Sir Ed Davey on Monday is the extent to which Nigel Farage is living rent-free in the Liberal Democrat leader's head.
He kicked off our interview warning of that in Donald Trump's America, people are "really fearful for democracy" and that the Reform UK leader, Mr Farage, is intent on mimicking those politics here: "I think he wants Britain to be like Trump's America". In some ways, Sir Ed's attacks on Reform and Mr Farage make little sense, because as the leader of the Liberal Democrats, it is the Conservatives that would typically be where the competition lies.
In the last general election, 58 of the Lib Dem's 60 seat gains came from the Tories. But in another way, the Lib Dem leader is giving an insight into how the battle in British politics is shaping up: Reform versus - in the words of Sir Ed - the "mainstream.